How to Help Your
Child
Deal With Bullies
online conference
transcript
 Kathy Noll is our guest.
Millions of boys and girls are involved every year in fights on school grounds.
Many are physically threatened and also robbed. How can your children protect
themselves from bullies and from violence at school?
Kathy wrote the book "Taking the Bully by
the Horns". She'll discusses what you, as a parent, can do to help your
child deal with bullies and/or prevent them from becoming one.
David:
HealthyPlace.com moderator.
The people in green are audience members.
David: Good
Evening. I'm David Roberts, the moderator for tonight's conference. I want to
welcome everyone to HealthyPlace.com. Our topic tonight is "How to Help
Your Child Deal With Bullies".
Some children, today, have been bullied to the
point of feeling nothing, feeling numb. They are withdrawn and hopeless.
In a recent study, 77% of the students said they
had been bullied. And 14% of those who were bullied said they experienced
severe (bad) reactions to the abuse. Did you know that over 6 million boys and
4 million girls are involved in fights every year on school grounds? Many are
physically threatened, while a large number of students are also robbed. And
with school violence, seemingly, being an everyday occurrence now, what are you
going to do when the bully comes calling?
Our guest is Kathy Noll, author of the book:
"Taking The Bully By The Horns."
Good evening Kathy, and welcome to
HealthyPlace.com. Thank
you for joining us tonight. So everyone is on the same track, please define a
bully for us.
Kathy:
Thanks David, and hello everyone. A bully is a person who has low self-esteem
and feels he or she needs to put another person down, in order to make him or
herself feel bigger.
David: How
does a bully become a bully?
Kathy: There
are many different ways. He or she may have been bullied themselves, or it
could be the negative influence of peers or the media. It also could be because
he is angry either at his own self esteem, or from the bullying he/she
received.
David: How
does the bully choose his target? What characteristics make the other person
"the victim"?
Kathy:
Mostly, bullies pick on another child who is younger or smaller than
him or herself, because they are easier to control. I should mention that
victims are also chosen if they hang their heads low, walk with their shoulders
slouched or seem like "loners".
David: In
your book, you mention different levels of being a bully -- "mean",
"meaner", "meanest". Can you explain the different levels
to us?
Kathy: The
different levels depend on whether the bullying is verbal, or physical.
Physical is the worst case scenario. The "mean" bully may tease you
verbally, while the "meanest" bully is the one who is physically
violent. That's the one you need to stay away from at all costs.
David: As a
parent, what should I do to help my child deal with these types of
situations?
Kathy:
First, if you feel your child is being bullied, you need to get him or her to
admit it. That is the first step. There are also signs to look for, to know if
your child is being bullied:
- change in behavior
- lack of concentration
- torn clothing, bruises
- loses money a lot
- depression, fearful, mood swings
- stomach aches, head aches
Don't question victims intently or ask anything
that might make them feel they have done anything wrong. Broach the subject
obliquely, giving them the option to talk about it or not. Let them know that
you are willing to listen at any time. When they start to talk, listen
carefully to what they have to say. Let them decide if they want to
handle the situation themselves or if they want you to get
involved.
Letting them handle it themselves will help with
their self-esteem, but if they ask your advice, you could help them come up
with acceptable responses to the bully, if say, the bullying is verbal and/or
teasing.
David: You
mentioned "getting your child to admit he/she is being bullied." Do
kids usually keep that a secret? And, if so, why?
Kathy: They
are afraid they will get in trouble somehow; that they somehow provoked or
asked for this. They might be accused of being a bully themselves. They are
also afraid of looking like a "loser" if they admit to being the
"victim".
David: I
remember, as a child, being bullied one day, and I came home with a black eye.
My dad taught me how to defend myself and hit the other person, if necessary. I
know that was a different era, but do you still recommend that to parents
today?
Kathy: It
does help to know some martial arts. But they should only be used as a last
resort. There are many law suits today due to kids using their skills to
"show off" what they've learned. Martial Arts were originally
developed, to be used after a more peaceful means of settling the situation
have failed. That is what my book is about.
David:
Kathy, here are some audience questions:
karen_river:
We have a bully who lives behind us and is in my daughter's class, again this
year. They are both 9 years old. He's constantly putting her down, degrading
her, acting like he knows everything and she is stupid. She does, at times,
want to play with him. Sometimes, and at moments, he can be nice to her. What
can she do or say to him when he acts like this? I feel she needs to stand up
for herself (her beliefs), but his comments/remarks really bother her.
Thanks.
Kathy: Make
sure she knows she's OK. Explain to her how the bully is the one with
the problem. He has low self-esteem and feels pretty bad about himself. Putting
others down - he thinks - will make himself feel better. Don't mistake
arrogance for a high self-esteem. You could help her work on acceptable
responses such as "why are you treating me this way? I never did anything
to you."
David: What
if the bully continues to taunt a child. What do you recommend for dealing with
that?
Kathy: You
should then, keep your child away from that child, or have a talk with the
bully's parents.
David: And
that brings the question, when do you think it's right for the parents to get
involved in any bully situation?
Kathy: Most
bullying takes place on school grounds. There, the kids are the teacher's
responsibility, although many feel their only job is to teach. However, there
are also many loving and caring teachers who want to get involved, and they
need to be told and get involved to stop these incidences. If the teachers
won't do anything to help, you can file a police report.
schmidt85:
How do you "make sure" she knows she's OK? For junior high kids, that
is almost an impossibility if they are on the receiving end of the bully stuff.
The "bully" is the one with the self-confidence, and in my
experience, the one whose parents allow and encourage that type of
behavior.
Kathy:
Generally, parents of bullies fall into two categories: They are either very
permissive and allow their kids to get away with anything, or they are very
abusive. Again, don't mistake arrogance for high self-esteem. Many studies have
shown bullies have a low self-esteem. If they appear the opposite, it is
an act; a show they put on. Again, their main goal is to control.
David:
That's an interesting point that Schmidt85 brings up. Is the bully kid
receiving "approval" from his/her parents to be a bully, so he
continues on with his bully behavior?
Kathy: That
is quite possible. All cases are individual and as unique as people are. But
yes, many bully kids also have bully parents. Most of the time you don't know,
or you won't admit, that you are a bully.
sunnstar: My
parents talked to the bully's parents, and the bullies even bullied me more.
How do you deal with that kind of situation?
Kathy: Yeah,
many times a bully will come back at you harder for "snitching" on
them. Again, since most of the bullying takes place on school grounds, you must
get the teachers/principal involved. They need to keep an eye on situations
like that. Again, if they don't, people need to file police reports.
David: Here
are a couple of audience comments, then we'll continue with the
questions:
momof7: I
would agree with the low self-esteem issue. They feel important when they can
put down others.
sunnstar: I
believe it is true because the parents of my bullies, abused me more, and then
started treating my parents badly too.
Rich005: I
was wondering if there were studies on adults who were bullied earlier in life.
I was bullied in elementary school and high school. Quite an unhappy time. I'm
wondering if there are any residual side-effects that we can have later in
life, even after the bullying has ended?
Kathy: My
book, "Taking the Bully by the Horns" is based on Dr.
Carter's best-selling book "Nasty People". This book is about adult
bullying or invalidation.
Most of those people started out as victims and
remained victims throughout their adult life. Both of these books are available
through my web
site as Dr. Carter is also my co-author of "Taking the Bully by the
Horns".
David: What
about the idea of "ignoring" the bully and, if the bully is engaging
in verbal bullying, just not responding.
Kathy: Yes,
that works. If the bullying is verbal, sometimes it's best to either ignore it,
because if they aren't getting a rise out of you, it is not fun for them
anymore. Or if you laugh along with them at what they are saying, again, it's
not working for them, it's not fun for them, and they will probably move onto
someone else.
David: What
does the bully get out of bullying?
Kathy: There
could be any number of things. Let's say a bully has a large nose. He may
"bully" someone else who has glasses because he wants to distract
from himself. Sometimes a bully bullies because he started out as a victim and
feels if he/she becomes the "bully", he can no longer be hurt by
anyone ever again. Or so he thinks.
David: So is
that a common theme...going from victim to bully?
Kathy: Yes,
in my book, I call this the "Bully Cycle". Bullies creating more
bullies.
Bev_1: Why
is it that children of one who was bullied, also get bullied?
Kathy: You
mean, the parents were victims and so are their children? Perhaps because they
never learned how to improve their own self-esteem or hold their own heads high
and feel good about themselves, and so it's hard for them to teach those skills
to their children.
David:
Here's a related question on that exact point, Kathy:
sunnstar: I
know this chat is about children being bullied. I was bullied so severely as a
child that I developed
social phobia as an adult. To this day, I still get picked on,
no matter where I go. I notice that I send a vibe out that I am an easy target.
Do you have any advice? Thanks.
Kathy: Have
you tried getting professional help? Dr. Carter has helped many people with his
"Center for Self-Esteem." And yes, you must be putting out that vibe.
And since you are suggesting that here, you know you are. So you need to start
feeling better about yourself. There is nobody out there that is any better
than you, and if you could get into everyone's head, you'd find out that
everyone has different levels of fear and are lacking in self-confidence to
some degree.
David: We
had a conference last week on
self-esteem. You
can read the transcript. It was a very good conference with lot's of
information.
CATSnHARDROCK:
Although we love each other immensely, my girlfriend and I have a
tendency to bully one another on certain occasions and I just don't understand
where this comes from.
Kathy:
Again, fear and lacking in self-confidence. There needs to be open
communication to identify the problem. And focusing on the problem not
the person, and attacking the problem not the person. Listening with an
open mind, and treating a person's feelings with respect, and taking
responsibility for your own actions. Not walking away from a problem, but
trying to openly discuss it and find a resolution.
David:
Kathy, do kids grow out of being bullies, or do they grow up to be big
bullies?
Kathy: That
could go either way, depending on how many victims stood up to them, how many
teachers or parents disciplined them, and if they finally realized how much
they have been hurting people.
David: Back
to children victims, is there a difference between being a girl victim and a
boy victim? And are there different methods used to handle bullies?
Kathy: It's
interesting, according to the US Justice Department, there are more girls who
are BULLIES than boys! Girls bullying other girls is the big issue now. I know
the school violence with guns and bombs is the most serious issue today, but
the most common is girl clicks. Girls tend to talk about each other and hang
out in groups where they will ostracize each other. They tend to rely heavily
on using put downs and gossip, however, most physical fights are between boys,
and many girls have gotten quite good at it as well!
David:
Should girls use different methods to cope with bullies than boys?
Kathy: No,
they should both learn to stand up to the bullies, girls or boys. That is the
first step.
Bev_1: With
so much bullying, my son doesn't want to go to school. He is 10. How do I get
him to go without him getting so distressed about it?
Kathy: Ask
your son if he has any ideas on how he can change his situation. Encourage him
to resolve it on his own to help improve his self-esteem and listen with an
open mind and offer solutions. If his fear is great because of a particular
bully, notify the teacher. There are times when this can be done
"anonymously," so that the bully doesn't come back harder. Instead of
giving names of the victims, just say to either the teacher or the bully's
parents, that this child has been causing a lot of grief to other students and
needs to be talked to and stopped.
schmidt85:
What if you notify the teacher, the teacher notifies the kid's
parents, and the bully just gets worse?
David: What
if things are so bad, your kid just won't go back to school. Then what?
Kathy: I
know a lot of parents write me and have taken their kids out of school to
either homeschool them or move them into another school. It's sad how your life
is forced to change because of fear and the violence of another person. If the
bullying is that bad, again, the police will get involved, and you need to file
a report.
David: As a
parent, that's a very difficult situation because you don't want to send your
child back to be hurt, whether it's physical or emotional.
Kathy: Yes,
and even though the physical is the most life-threatening, the verbal will
carry the deeper scars throughout life.
dotwhat:
Bullying and aggressive taunting is at epidemic proportions today. Do you think
schools should start teaching kids not to bully, name-call, and fight?
Kathy: Yes,
many schools have a "No tolerance" policy for those
situations.
David:
Kathy, I always like to give our audience concrete things they can carry home
with them from each conference. So I want to go over a few things here:
First of all, if your child is the victim of a
verbal bully, what would you suggest the child do and the parent do if the
bullying continues to escalate?
Kathy: If
the bullying is verbal, the first thing to do is ignore it. If this doesn't
work, try laughing along. If this doesn't work, avoid the bully if you can. If
you are becoming an emotional wreck because of it, you need to talk to the
parents and teachers. Your grades will drop when you have to focus on fear
instead of learning.
David: What
about physical bullying and if it continues to escalate? And here, I'm talking
about taunting, pushing and shoving, and fighting without a weapon?
Kathy: You
need to first try to settle the conflict peacefully - talking it out. If the
bully doesn't want to talk and continues to hurt you, avoid him at all costs.
If he still goes after you, it's good to know martial arts, to walk to school
in groups not alone, to avoid alley ways...and at this point, the school,
parents and police should be involved.
David: Kathy
Noll's website is: http://hometown.aol.com/kthynoll and here's the link to the
HealthyPlace.com Parenting
Community. At the parenting community, you can sign up for the mail list at
the top of the page so you can keep up with events like this.
And finally, Kathy, at what point do you
recommend that the parents become involved in intervening?
Kathy: The
parents can become involved at any point. Even in the beginning, if the child
comes to you for help. He may not feel he can handle the conflict on his own
and may ask you for ideas and assistance. But, most definitely, when you are
threatened with bodily injury.
David: Now,
I know that some parents have the attitude: "well son or daughter, it's
time you grow up and learn to handle this on your own". Is that a good
thing?
Kathy: Yes,
teach them responsibility. Teach them that their actions have consequences and
to take responsibility for their own actions. Also to apologize when they know
they are at fault.
David: Maybe
I didn't make myself clear. I'm referring to telling your child (the victim) to
figure out a way to deal with the bully on their own?
Kathy: Don't
do that if they are asking you for help. Many bullies are created when
parents lack in supervision.
David: Thank
you, Kathy, for being our guest tonight. And I want to thank everyone in the
audience for coming and participating. I hope you found it helpful. Again,
Kathy's website is:
http://hometown.aol.com/kthynoll.
And, if you have an topic or a guest that you'd
like to see appear for a conference here at
HealthyPlace.com, drop me
a line at info@healthyplace.com and
put the words "conference idea" in the subject header. We get
a lot of our guests from visitor suggestions.
Also, we now have hosted support groups on our
site. We are receiving a lot of very positive feedback. You can click this link
for more
details and the schedule.
Kathy:
Thanks David. And thank you everyone. I hope you found the information tonight
to be both interesting and helpful.
David: Good
night everyone.
Kathy Noll has written a series of articles on
bullies and how to deal with bullies.
A couple of nights per week, we
hold topical mental health chat conferences. The schedule to this conferences,
and transcripts from previous chats,
are here.
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